L
lissa
has anyone heard anything regarding the use of octupus and turtle diagrams as an aid to conducting internal audits?
Use of Octupus and Turtle Diagrams in ISO 9000:2000 Internal Auditing
B
Bill Ryan - 2007
Hi Lissa
Try looking at this thread for starters. Also try a search of "cops" or "turtle" and there are quite a few threads/posts to choose from.
COPs (Customer Oriented Processes), Turtle Diagrams and an Octopus or Two
BTW - Welcome to the Cove
Bill
Try looking at this thread for starters. Also try a search of "cops" or "turtle" and there are quite a few threads/posts to choose from.
COPs (Customer Oriented Processes), Turtle Diagrams and an Octopus or Two
BTW - Welcome to the Cove
Bill
B
Bill Ryan - 2007
Lissa,lissa said:
I tried to email you back but "you weren't receiving". So we'll have to continue here, for now. There really is a wealth of info at this thread for you to decide if it entails anything "new" for your needs. Basically the octopus and turtle diagrams are rehashes of tools that have been around for quite a while. The slight twist your auditor might throw at you is that your current flow diagrams, etc., may not show the interaction of your processes or may not "show" your customer focus clearly enough.
Hope this helps,
Bill
D
db
Part II
As a belated note: I've seen a growing number of folks that use the process diagram as the basis for auditing. They either build their checklists off the diagram, or they use the diagram ILO a checklist. Either of which can make sense if done properly.
As a belated note: I've seen a growing number of folks that use the process diagram as the basis for auditing. They either build their checklists off the diagram, or they use the diagram ILO a checklist. Either of which can make sense if done properly.
Douglas E. Purdy
Quite Involved in Discussions
Dave,
What does ILO mean?
Thanks,
Doug
What does ILO mean?
Thanks,
Doug
P
Pennington
Turtles and Octopussy
As some posts remark, this stuff is old hat. Its not even animal magic. However, it is used in the Third Party Auditor Qualification Training for TS 16949:2002. A much better process auditing tool is available at ** DEAD LINK REMOVED ***
The Turtle is still a clause based auditing tool whereas Auditor Questions is based on process management principles.
As some posts remark, this stuff is old hat. Its not even animal magic. However, it is used in the Third Party Auditor Qualification Training for TS 16949:2002. A much better process auditing tool is available at ** DEAD LINK REMOVED ***
The Turtle is still a clause based auditing tool whereas Auditor Questions is based on process management principles.
D
db
howste said:
Sorry, I missed this. You are correct howste. I'm glad you answered it. I can't spell lieu, that's why I use ILO.
D
db
Pennington said:
I would tend to disagree. My first experience with the Turtle was to look at processes to find sources of Process Variation (thanks to Crosby). It had nothing to do with auditing, and in fact, I knew nothing about ISO at the time (some still wonder). The Turtle diagram is based on the process. It shows process inputs, outputs and factors. There is nothing about the clauses in a Turtle Diagram. Unless of course, we are using the same label on two separate things.
