Vehicles (Outsourced Process)

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Ithalion

#1
I have [what I consider] a complicated situation here: my company owns some company vehicles, but we also have many leased vehicles from Enterprise, as well as some vehicles that are technically owned by our sister-companies, but that we use as well. Also, every vehicles is under Enterprise Fleet Management; Fuel Card as well as a card that we'd use at a garage for Maintenance (as long as they accept the Enterprise Card) then Enterprise basically keeps track of everything that needs to be done and has been done.

The ISO 9001:2008 guidance package I'm using gives examples of possible outsourced processes and one is "Emissions Testing". I assume they put this as an outsourced process because conformity to customer requirements can depend on vehicles -- chiefly through the aspect of "on-time delivery"? For my company, I guess this would be relevant for when we send out engineers for Field Service as well as when we use one of our own vehicles for local delivery. My understanding is that this would be considered outsourced for us because we (like basically every company) use other companies for vehicle maintenance/emissions tests (through Enterprise Fleet Management) as well as the fact that we don't even technically own most of our vehicles.

I know that many/most companies have company vehicles, so what do you do for control? Do you even consider this a relevant "Outsourced Process"? Again, for us, it's for the sake of getting our engineers out for Field Service (if the car broke down, it'd only delay a couple hours tops to rent a car), or if we choose to deliver a local product ourselves (which we could easily use another of our trucks or an actual carrier if a truck breaks down).

Thanks!
 
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#2
You've summed it up well in your last comment. If your QMS scope is "field service", then the use of a vehicle (however it's controlled) isn't an outsourced process at all - unless you were using "Uber" to get your techs to a client! Don't worry about controlling the vehicles.

The guidance from ISO is confusing you - they are describing a car manufacturer who might outsource testing - emissions - to a lab. (Most I know do it themselves)
 

Big Jim

Super Moderator
#3
You've summed it up well in your last comment. If your QMS scope is "field service", then the use of a vehicle (however it's controlled) isn't an outsourced process at all - unless you were using "Uber" to get your techs to a client! Don't worry about controlling the vehicles.

The guidance from ISO is confusing you - they are describing a car manufacturer who might outsource testing - emissions - to a lab. (Most I know do it themselves)
I don't know about Michigan, but in California and many other states, emissions testing can only be done by state licensed garages. It most certainly is not something a company can do for themselves unless they are in that business and have that license.

To the OP. I don't understand why their should be any drama here. Your Enterprise system provides you with controls for outsourcing vehicle maintenance. What the standard requires here is from near the last part of 4.1, the paragraph that says that outsourcing needs to be controlled and that those controls need to be defined somewhere in your quality management system. It is notable that it says "defined", not "documented". Without splitting hairs, documenting it is best, so add what you explained somewhere in your system, the quality manual, the purchasing procedure, a maintenance procedure, a separate procedure or work instruction, or wherever it seems appropriate to you.
 
I

Ithalion

#4
Oh man, not having to consider it as an Outsourced Process would clear up quite a headache for me -- thank you very much.

So I wouldn't consider the maintenance of our vehicles something like "Equipment Maintenance"? Equipment Maintenance is another example given by my guidance package, which I was considering things like our Cranes/Hoists and Forklifts (for repair or inspection).

Actually, rather than asking question after question, I'll just list the current processes that I have considered as Outsourced Processes; they can all be found on the guidance package example list (though perhaps I am again taking some out of context):

1. Calibration (for out testing equipment; e.g. meters)
2. Crane/Forklift Maintenance & Inspection (the cranes/hoists we use to move around product either during production or for loading)
3. Security (alarms, etc.)
4. Shipping/Trucking Services (Carriers)
5. Board & Small Drive Repairs
6. Coatings (Purchase Busbar but have it sent directly to another company to have it tin-coated for us)

After what I've read recently, I'm a little iffy on whether #2 and #3 are actually correct for us. Crane & Forklift repair/inspection isn't like a part of our production process that affects conformity to requirements and neither is Security. Sure, if a crane is in poor repair so it breaks and drops one of our products, THAT will affect conformity; or if we didn't have Security, someone might break in and damage our product and THAT would affect conformity. But neither are part of our normal process, so I wouldn't have thought it'd be a relevant outsourced process. But I can't really think of why the package would have included those examples then; is it because we're outsourcing part of our Preventative Maintenance Program from 6.3 (Infrastructure)?
 
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I

Ithalion

#5
To the OP. I don't understand why their should be any drama here. Your Enterprise system provides you with controls for outsourcing vehicle maintenance.
I wouldn't say they really control it though, because they don't screen or control the garages that do the maintenance at all or tell us where to take our vehicles for repair. They only tell us (as far as repair goes) that we should go to a certain place because we still have a warranty there or something. If not, we take it wherever we want as long as the garage accepts the Enterprise card. So, Enterprise is not controlling the quality of our garage choice at all...which wouldn't be a problem, because then I could just control the two places that we always go, but we do have times where a Field Service engineer will be out on a trip and it'll break down, so they just have to take it to the nearest garage (which there is no way I can control).
 
#6
Despite the confusion about emissions (in CA or anywhere else) your techs could be rollerskating etc to their calls. It's NOT an outsourced process which even comes close to affecting service quality. Trust me, I've worked in field service and I had one of the worst cars (A British Leyland Morris Ital) and I never missed an appointment...
 

Big Jim

Super Moderator
#7
Oh man, not having to consider it as an Outsourced Process would clear up quite a headache for me -- thank you very much.

So I wouldn't consider the maintenance of our vehicles something like "Equipment Maintenance"? Equipment Maintenance is another example given by my guidance package, which I was considering things like our Cranes/Hoists and Forklifts (for repair or inspection).

Actually, rather than asking question after question, I'll just list the current processes that I have considered as Outsourced Processes; they can all be found on the guidance package example list (though perhaps I am again taking some out of context):

1. Calibration (for out testing equipment; e.g. meters)
2. Crane/Forklift Maintenance & Inspection (the cranes/hoists we use to move around product either during production or for loading)
3. Security (alarms, etc.)
4. Shipping/Trucking Services (Carriers)
5. Board & Small Drive Repairs
6. Coatings (Purchase Busbar but have it sent directly to another company to have it tin-coated for us)

After what I've read recently, I'm a little iffy on whether #2 and #3 are actually correct for us. Crane & Forklift repair/inspection isn't like a part of our production process that affects conformity to requirements and neither is Security. Sure, if a crane is in poor repair so it breaks and drops one of our products, THAT will affect conformity; or if we didn't have Security, someone might break in and damage our product and THAT would affect conformity. But neither are part of our normal process, so I wouldn't have thought it'd be a relevant outsourced process. But I can't really think of why the package would have included those examples then; is it because we're outsourcing part of our Preventative Maintenance Program from 6.3 (Infrastructure)?
1-yes, that is something you outsource and you need to control. It is usually controlled through your purchasing process. You explain what is needed on purchase orders or other purchasing documents such as contracts, and when the service is completed, you confirm you got what you asked for, mainly from reviewing the calibration certificates.

2-yes, that is process equipment and if you have someone come in and service it, that is outsourcing. It is also usually controlled through the purchasing process.

3-yes, it is outsourcing, but you probably don't need to deal with it in an ISO 9001 system. Security is not a topic of ISO 9001.

4-yes, shipping is outsourcing and again it is usually handled through the purchasing process.

5-I'm not sure what you mean by board and small drive repairs.

6-yes, that is outsourcing. The fact that it is two deep in the supply chain doesn't matter. You still need to control it and define those controls. This is again usually handled through the purchasing with the added requirement to make sure your immediate supplier flows down those requirements to the coating company.
 

Big Jim

Super Moderator
#8
I wouldn't say they really control it though, because they don't screen or control the garages that do the maintenance at all or tell us where to take our vehicles for repair. They only tell us (as far as repair goes) that we should go to a certain place because we still have a warranty there or something. If not, we take it wherever we want as long as the garage accepts the Enterprise card. So, Enterprise is not controlling the quality of our garage choice at all...which wouldn't be a problem, because then I could just control the two places that we always go, but we do have times where a Field Service engineer will be out on a trip and it'll break down, so they just have to take it to the nearest garage (which there is no way I can control).
OK, so I might not have taken enough into consideration here.

The important thing here is that the level of control you apply to the supplier or whatever they are providing can vary according to how it impacts your quality management system. I sense that you are trying to apply more control here than is needed.

One of the companies I worked for in the distant past leased their vehicles, including the one I drove for company business. The leasing company handled things much like Enterprise does for you. They did require that we use shops on their list. Dealers were permitted only if it was a warranty issue. Eventually my employer caught on that all the leasing company did with the maintenance and repairs that were done in their authorized shops was to add on 25% as an administration fee. After that, we were permitted to take care of the maintenance and repairs at shops of our choosing as long as the prices were competitive and then include the bills on our expense reports.

That was long before ISO 9001 had much of a foothold.

Anyway, you should be able to figure out something to control this in as easy to administer manner. For example have the vehicle maintenance follow the factory maintenance guide and make sure that the shop used was state licensed, or AAA endorsed, or some other easy method to determine their competency and voracity.

It doesn't need to be a difficult or heavy duty method.
 

SheiLaJP

Involved In Discussions
#9
An ?outsourced process? is a process that the organization has identified as being needed for its operations and quality management system (QMS), but one which it has chosen to be carried out by an external party outside the managerial control of your facility and may not be subject to the same QMS as your organization.

Examples of such processes include: - strategic planning done at head office; purchasing or design done at head office or another location; heat treating; painting; welding, calibration; testing; sort; human resources; information technology; etc., peformed by an outside organization. A manufacturing company may outsource welding, heat treatment or painting of product. A software company may outsource software development. A bank may outsource check clearing services.
 
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