Scope Of Registration To TS 16949 - Need help in determining

[krishkaar]

An Organisation manufacturing products supplies to A) Passenger Car manufacturer, B) Two Wheeler manufacturer and C) Earthmoving equipment manufacturer.
Products are produced from the same set of production equipment and with the same set of operators in the same premises (under one roof).
Presently this organisation holds a Registration to ISO 9001:2000. Organisation wishes to upgrade system to TS2.
What should be the scope of TS2 registration?
IATF rule specifically states non-automobile componenets manufacturers are not eligible!

 

[Mustang]

We're in pretty much the same situation, multiple products for multiple markets off the same equipment. We have passed our TS registration, and as a result, we will have both the TS16949 cert and the ISO 9k2k cert.The scope will be the same on both: "Manufacturer of metal formings, stampings and assemblies including the design of production tooling. Product design portion of Clause 7.3 is excludable".

Pretty much, this means the TS cert will apply to our automotive product, and the ISO cert will be for anything else. Since TS is ISO plus extras, there really isn't any reason to do anything different for ISO if you meet TS. We have a single system that meets TS, therefore our auditor feels comfortable that ISO requirements are also met. Therefore, our Registrar will issue us two certificates.

 

[krishkaar]

What happens at the time of surviellance audits - the schedules are different-ISO9k2k falls in Dec and TS2 in Jun.
Certifying body is same.

 

[Mustang]

Since we did ours together, our surveillance audit is at the same time, as a single audit. We are on a 6-month schedule, so we get audited in June and in Dec.

Your best bet would probably be to talk to your registrar. They should be able to help you.

 

[Sam]

The new draft "Rules" essentially state that all customers can be included in the TS2 scope. That decision is up to the organization.

 

[Mustang]

The rules state in the "ISO/TS 16949:2002 Certificate Content Requirements:

"g. List on a separate appendix any customers whose specific quality management systems requirements were included in the audit"

So, you could do what Sam suggests, if you want to have all of your customers listed with your cert. For us, it is really more of a volume issue, since we have over 350 customers. Our auditor does not really have the time to look at each one specifically, so we only list our Automotive customers on our TS certificate and send the ISO cert for the rest, since that is all they require.

 

[krishkaar]

Scope of Registration to TS2

The new draft "Rules" essentially state that all customers can be included in the TS2 scope. That decision is up to the organization.

I would appreciate if you provide the details of this draft Rules.
Thanks

 

[Mustang]

The specific rule is in my previous post (the one just ahead of yours). It comes from the "Rules for achieving IATF recognition, 2nd Edition for ISO/TS 16949:2002" dated May 31, 2004. The quote is from page 12 in my copy, but I don't know if the pages are the same in every country.

 

[Sam]

I would appreciate if you provide the details of this draft Rules.
Thanks

A copy of the "rules" can be obtained from the AIAG at www.aiag.org.