Product Audit - Explanation and samples of the report - TS 16949

[Ragnar]

For a product audit, we walk the control plan. My preference is to walk it backwards starting with a couple of containers on the shipping dock and tracing through the process back to incoming material used in production.

Good Morning! Our product audit was also based on the control plan and any other required inspection and measurements that would confirm that our product meets customer requirements. Having said that, our registrar issued us a nonconformance for conducting "Inadequate" product audits. He based this rational on ISO/TS 16949:2002 (8.2.2.3) THe organization shall audit products......to verify conformity to ALL specified requirements..Bla..Bla..Bla.
Anyway, what he said was that the control plan did not identify ALL the product specifications as called out on the print, contract, PPAP requirements etc. In his opinion only a "Re- PPAP" of the product would confirm ALL requirements had been met (or not met). We have developed a "Product Audit" form for each of our 3 OEM customers. I will attach them. However I don't suggest this is what is required. I'm my UN-professional opinion, this way over kill and not what was intended. Please let me know if there are some other interpritations floating around.
Thank you:
Respectfully:
Ragnar

 

[Howard Atkins]

I tend to agree that the product audit is a separate action and should check the product and not the process which is reflected in the control plan.
The difference is to take a part and physically check it rather than check the production process.

There is a connection between the dock audit of QS and the product audit of TS and European customers are expecting parts to be pulled from the finished goods and then checked against a form of checklist such as Ragnar showed.
Whether his audits are excessive are a matter of choice but there is a cross between the audit, layout and revalidation.

The standard says that the product shall be checked and thus walking the control plan is not in fact checking the part rather that the controls are working at the time.
This is I know understood differently by different people and I had a customer who defined product audit as added checks that he wanted to the control plan.
We have discussed the issue of whom can perform the product audit here
Can Quality Inspectors be Product Auditors?
Where my view is clear.
There should also be a timetable for the performance of the product audits for the same reasons

 

[Valeri]

Our decisions for product audits came from the AIAG definition as follows:

"The intent of the product audit is verification that the control plan controls in different stages of production, including the shipping dock. The process audit verifies that the process is followed, whereas the product audit verifies that the control plan is followed.

Many years ago, this used to be the job of the inspector who would randomly sample products and verify that the operator was indeed doing the necessary inspection.

The product audit asks the question: How does the organization know if the product checks as required by the control plan are carried out? This is the intent of the product audit. Organizations must sample products and manufacturing processes, including the dock, to ensure that the product dimensions, functionality, packaging and labeling are occurring as planned."

 

[Howard Atkins]

Our decisions for product audits came from the AIAG definition as follows:

"The intent of the product audit is verification that the control plan controls in different stages of production, including the shipping dock. The process audit verifies that the process is followed, whereas the product audit verifies that the control plan is followed.

I have seen this and still do not really agree, I think that the product audit was added with the influence of the VDA and the last post in this thread
https://elsmar.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000071.html
sums it up.

But here again this is I think a cultural difference that IATF should have issued a guideline for.

 

[smartguy]

I have a lot of product and I can not finished to audit all the product within a year including process and system audit. How should i do ?

Can I priortize the product based on criticallity to customer, based on customer complaint and market complaint or defect found during out going inspection ?

 

[D.Scott]

The requirement is that you audit products to verify conformity to all specified requirements [of the product you are auditing]. It does not state that you must do this product audit on every product you have. You determine which product is audited and at what frequency according to how you define your system.

For the majority of product, your standard in-process verification/inspections/testing should be sufficient. The choice of which product to audit is up to you and you can base the choice on whatever works for you.

Dave

 

[Howard Atkins]

The difference that I discussed between the two methods of prodcut audit
That presented by the AIAG of auditing the control plan- or in other words a process control audit
and the actual product audit can be seen in this excerpt from the VW requirements:

5. Product audit
5.1 General
Process variations and low process capabilities tend to have a direct effect on product quality and, consequently, the compliance with customer requirements. In a product audit, it is possible to determine deviations from the customer requirements and to directly draw conclusions with regard to the influencing processes. Taking the detected deviations into account, it is possible to investigate and analyze the priorities in terms of the problem processes and to implement corrective action. The processes can be investigated, analyzed in key areas and continuous improvements achieved.
The supplier is always obliged to carry out product and process audits on their own on a regular basis. Volkswagen also carries out product audits for certain priorities before the process audits at the supplier to evaluate important product characteristics from the point of view of the customer and to identify critical processes.
The task of the product audit is to inspect products that are ready for shipment in terms of their compliance with the specified customer-relevant characteristics, to draw conclusions with regard to the parts / as-delivered quality, to trace deviations back to the defects in the process that cause them and to initiate corrective action, where necessary.
See VDA Volume 6 Part 5 for details.

5.2 Execution and actions
The Volkswagen Group product audit is performed before the Process audit and refers to a few important characteristics that must be defined in consultation with the supplier. The characteristics are selected in a risk-oriented manner according to possible fault category A and or B (see table). It is not possible to include long-term tests in the audit. The latest results that the supplier can provide regarding these products can be used in this regard, if necessary. The most important characteristics can refer to, for example:
• Characteristics that deviate from the customer requirements
• (complaints from the past)
• Dimensions (initial measurement, function, assembly)
• Material
• Function
• Visual appearance
• Product identification

The full requirements can be seen here
https://elsmar.com/Forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3404

I think that this is one of these discussions that will never be finished, at least not here.
This would alos appear to be the common ground between the old ( QS9000) dock audit and the VDA 6,5 product audit

 

[Athies]

Product Audit

Dear Mazura,
Product audit can be done in many ways. Ur org has to decide how to go about it. Remember, whatever ur org decides, it must work for the org, not for the auditors. Auditors check to ensure the system is in place and is working.

Rgds
Athies

 

[YKT]

i look at the confusion of product and process manufacturing audit similar to the assigning failure modes during the Design FMEA and Process FMEA.

Product audit should look at the intended functionality of the product, and whether the product meets the customer requirements in every stages of the production, right to the shipping and unloading at the customer site.

While, process manufacturing audit, is pretty similar to the Process FMEA approach, where the auditors should look at the potential failures / causes in the process itself, and whether any action has been taken to eliminate or minimise the effect to the internal / external customers.

If I were to look at these, Product audit should be performed less regularly than Process Manufacturing Audit....

 

[Bpoole]

Producst audits

We do our products audits as products are being prepared to go out the door. We manufacture raw materials (ALuminum) and use a simple check off form.