Corrective Action Trigger - Anyone have a list to share?

[Bob_M]

Due to a oversite/weakness in our Corrective/Preventive Action program a certain poor quality issue was not address by the CPAR process. (It was handled souly by our Non-Conforming material process). The details are not important, but my boss (owner/president) has ENCOURAGED me to come up with a CPAR "trigger matrix" for issues that should ALWAYS trigger a corrective/preventive actions.

Some I'm wondering if anyone has a list of "triggers" within their company that always/usually requires a CPAR?

Note: We do have IA, Non-Conforming Material, Customer Complaint, and other similar processes/programs that self govern/correct them selves, but they may not ALWAYS lead to a CPAR when they should. If I don't know about it or if my OPINION is not strong enough it may not get the "formal" corrective treatment. We put out mini fires all the time, but we do not have a set guideline for when those fires should be investaged other than MY personal opinion (or direct customer complaint).

Examples/idea that I have so far:
* Production scrap above X dollars or Y # of pieces (not normal setup scrap) [Reason this came up - low $$ but high qty was scrapped and no CPAR was generated],
* X # of complaints from 1 customer or Y # of similar complaints, [currently at my and CSR's discretion - individual problems are handled immediately]
* Certain types of complaints/production or shipping problems, (which types ??)
* Certain types of known problems or issues found during internal audits [i.e. I generated a CPAR to address this weakness in our CPAR procedure w/o an audit].
* ?????????

I think I'm on the right track here, but I could use some inspiration/examples. I know many of our regulars work for "BIG" companies and probably have these types of things written in stone. (Or use to before 9k2k).

I don't want a EXTREMELY strick list, but I do need a strong guideline to help keep our QMS self regulating itself with out my opinion being the only meter.

Thanks in advance.
Bob M

 

[Mike Smith]

CAR Trigger

I dont know if this is what your looking for, but I will give it a try. We have a process called a Incident Report. Whenever a problem is discovered, the person who discovered it completes a incident report and gives it to the quality manager (me). The quality manager then creates a product quality team to discuss the problem and decide if a formal corrective action should be triggered. If not, a opportunity for improvement could be initiated or no action could be taken. The good thing about this process is that a team decides what action should be taken.

The only thing that triggers a corrective action 100% of the time is when non-conforming product is shipped to the customer.

 

[mshell]

Several things could generate CARs. A few are:

Customer Complaints
Customer Feedback
Nonconforming Product
Employee feedback
Vendor discrepancies
Noncompliance to the QMS
Lack of Training (adequate)
Lack of Resources
Internal Quality Audits
Third Party Audits

Of course these are just a few examples and the need for corrective action would depend on the magnitude of the issue. I hope this is what you are looking for.

 

[energy]

Simple answer, but an IMHO only

If you're the one to decide the magnitude of the problem:
Does your stomach roll at reading the report? Do you see a clear violation of procedures? Did you think about it driving home? If the answers are yes, put it in the limelight. This is what your job is. There is no clear cut definition of what is a problem. Your call. They'll love or hate you. JMHO

 

[Cari Spears]

Bob - I like your initial thoughts.

Do you already measure and monitor for your first two examples/ideas. We track these as parts of cost of nonconforming. Once a month we review both internal n/c product costs (rework and scrap) and warranty costs (freight, rework and scrap). We catagorize by defect type and give everything a dollar amount. We then decide to react to the most frequently occuring defect type or the most expensive. Using your metrics - having the team decide together at which point they will react - keeps it from being your call all the time.

Your last two examples/ideas are along the same lines as mshell's suggestions. Our metrics for warranty costs and occurances may be showing nice positive trends - however a certain warranty issue may require immediate correction for some reason. The people who most represent the voice of the customer have to make these types of calls. That sounds like you in your company. energy's post sums it up - it's the QM's job and they'll either love ya or hate ya. Here at my job when I'm being particularly unpopular, I try to enlist the aid of the Sales Rep or the main customer contact - the guy who's actually going to get the phone call from an irate customer.

 

[db]

Due to a oversite/weakness in our Corrective/Preventive Action program a certain poor quality issue was not address by the CPAR process. (It was handled souly by our Non-Conforming material process).

My question is why does your CAR program have to be separate from your Non-Conforming material process?

 

[Bob_M]

Quick note before I respond to different people: Our last QA Mgr over-reacted to EVERY single minor issue and would constantly issue CARs and have weekly TEAM meetings. This did not work well and was a major drain on resources. I reorganized the CPAR procedure/form based on the 8D model (makes logical sense to me). But in the process I did not make any clear cut "triggers" that always require CPARs. (Thus my request). Yes as the QA I will always have the final call over CPAR generation, but my BOSS wants me to make a list of "triggers". He never said the list had to be big.
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Mike Smith: Incident report and team meeting for every problem is not practical for an office of 6 [only me in quality dept.] (see not above). I've done my best to reduce extra paperwork.
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Mshell: Good list!

Customer Complaints - We have no trigger qty for "minor" complaints.

Customer Feedback - Depends on the feedback I suppose
Nonconforming Product - If it gets to the customer ALWAYS - Internal is rather rare.
Employee feedback - OK, some cases this might be valid
Vendor discrepancies - We have no trigger qty for "minor" complaints.
Noncompliance to the QMS - Maybe...
Lack of Training (adequate) - GOOD
Lack of Resources - Corrective action won't fix if cause is lack of $$ and business.
Internal Quality Audits - Already worked into NEW internal audit form.
Third Party Audits - Already duing this by default.

​

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Energy: I do my best NOT to think about work at home. I've probably already got a stress related ulcer started from stressing over our ISO upgrade, and I'm only 30! But its a valid point! Yes CPARs and the QMS in general is my call, but "triggers" will help me keep myself and the QMS intact.
I have built "triggers" into other programs such as our Engineering Change, so that things were not forgotten or paperwork was not wasted on minor issues.
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Cari Spears:
We normally do NOT have alot of ABNORMAL scrap quanties or dollars. We do attempt to track "normal" production scrap (setup pieces, beginning and end of coil scrap, etc), but its usually under $100 a month.
We also have few customer REJECTS, most issues revolve around timeliness and shipping paperwork errors. And some customers just like to complain no matter how minor the issue. (Please send my my ONE missing part out of 10,000 even though it costs $0.02, and will cost us $10 to ship it. )
Yes its my job to make the judgement calls, but even I could use some guidelines!
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DB:
Our non-conforming "process" is part of our CPAR umbrella, but some internal rejects can be handled with jsut our NCMR form. Not EVERY problem deserves a full FORMAL corrective action.
But then again that may be part of my/our problem. I've become a little to lax on my CPARs...
Thus again why I need "triggers" before our QMS begins to fall apart without us even realizing it!
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Thanks for the tips so far! Please keep them coming.

 

[RoxaneB]

At my organization, we have what is called a "Nonconformance Guidelines Matrix". This document lists all departments and what their triggers are for a:

• Nonconformance - a quick, wham!, bam!, let's get back to makin' stuff!
• Corrective Action - root cause et al
• Preventive Action - initiated upon the identification of an adverse trend
• Opportunity for Improvement - nothing's wrong, per se, but areas for improvement have been noted

It is up to the departments to decide what the triggers are for each option.

So, <X tons reworked will issue a Nonconformance while >X tons will issue a CAR. A noted increase in reworked product will issue a PAR.

Customer Complaints can be found on a shared system between all of our locations, and dealt with in that forum, so they are not on our NC Guidelines Matrix.

But you will find everything from unscheduled downtime to payroll mistakes to scrapped product to supplier issues within our Nonconformance System. The Guidelines Matrix helps our people to determine how much of our resources need to be spent on a discrepancy...a very helpful tool. But something that can only be developed by the users of the system.

 

[mshell]

Customer Complaints - We have no trigger qty for "minor" complaints.
Customer Feedback - Depends on the feedback I suppose
Nonconforming Product - If it gets to the customer ALWAYS - Internal is rather rare.
Employee feedback - OK, some cases this might be valid
Vendor discrepancies - We have no trigger qty for "minor" complaints.
Noncompliance to the QMS - Maybe...
Lack of Training (adequate) - GOOD
Lack of Resources - Corrective action won't fix if cause is lack of $$ and business.
Internal Quality Audits - Already worked into NEW internal audit form.
Third Party Audits - Already duing this by default.

Bob,

This is turning into a good discussion. I have a few questions.

Customer Complaints - what if you have several minor issues that have the same root cause. Do you have a way to identify that trend? If you do identify a trend, what steps are taken to manage the problem?

Nonconforming Product - Even internal can be very costly. A corrective action for a large amount of waste could open the eyes of the person responsible for generation. I have found that informing the responsible party and tasking them with or involving them in the solution process.

Vendor Discrepancies - What about damaged shipments, wrong product received, shortages, etc...? Do you have a $$ amount assigned or is someone responsible for determining the need for CAR?

Noncompliance to QMS - If you find that an employee is not following the guidelines of the QMS, what action is taken to ensure that the behavior is corrected?

 

[Cari Spears]

Cari Spears:
We normally do NOT have alot of ABNORMAL scrap quanties or dollars. We do attempt to track "normal" production scrap (setup pieces, beginning and end of coil scrap, etc), but its usually under $100 a month.
We also have few customer REJECTS, most issues revolve around timeliness and shipping paperwork errors. And some customers just like to complain no matter how minor the issue. (Please send my my ONE missing part out of 10,000 even though it costs $0.02, and will cost us $10 to ship it. )
Yes its my job to make the judgement calls, but even I could use some guidelines!

I would catagorize set up, beginning and end of coil, etc as a cost of quality - not to be included in the cost of nonquality. I only used the cost of nonquality as examples because of the first two examples/ideas in your first post and the first one you said that's what brought all of this up.

Good discussion Bob.