IATF 16949 Clause 4.4.1.2 - Product Safety

morteza

Trusted Information Resource
#1
Hi all

In clause 4.4.1.2 (product safety) IATF 16949 states:

The organization shall have documented processes for the management of product-safety related products and manufacturing processes, which shall include but not be limited to the following, where applicable:
d) identification of product safety-related characteristics;
e) identification and controls of safety-related characteristics of product and at the point of manufacture;


My questions is:

1- What is the difference between requirement d) and requirement e)?
I.e. In item d) the standard requires the organization to identify product safety-related characteristics, and again in item e) to identify safety-related characteristics of product.

May someone explain me more the requirement of item e) especially about “identification and controls … at the point of manufacture”.

Thanks all for your knowledge sharing!
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

QualitySpirit

Involved In Discussions
#2
Though I am not a native English speaker, the sentence "identification and controls of ... at the point of manufacture" looks weird to me.

Using a sense, I would interpret d) that I need to identify which features(characteristics) of my product are safety related, then I need to e) identify how I would control these features and control them. e.g. the word identification in e) is identifying control methods over the characteristics identified in d).

An example: If I produce a metal ring that is used in automotive brake system.

d) I identified that the internal diameter (characteristic) is a safety related characteristic as if it is not in the tolerance, it could not hold oil pressure and the brake system would fail.

e) I identified the control method over this internal diameter by 100% inspection with high accuracy automated inspection at the point of manufacture.
 

morteza

Trusted Information Resource
#3
Though I am not a native English speaker, the sentence "identification and controls of ... at the point of manufacture" looks weird to me.

Using a sense, I would interpret d) that I need to identify which features(characteristics) of my product are safety related, then I need to e) identify how I would control these features and control them. e.g. the word identification in e) is identifying control methods over the characteristics identified in d).

An example: If I produce a metal ring that is used in automotive brake system.

d) I identified that the internal diameter (characteristic) is a safety related characteristic as if it is not in the tolerance, it could not hold oil pressure and the brake system would fail.

e) I identified the control method over this internal diameter by 100% inspection with high accuracy automated inspection at the point of manufacture.
Thanks for your answer.

As I understand from your reply, you mean that IATF made a mistake in writing the standard and instead of " identification of controls ..." they wrote "identification and controls ...".

I think it is strange that IATF made such mistake.
 

jelly1921

Quite Involved in Discussions
#4
Thanks for your answer.

As I understand from your reply, you mean that IATF made a mistake in writing the standard and instead of " identification of controls ..." they wrote "identification and controls ...".

I think it is strange that IATF made such mistake.
It is not a mistake!
d) identification of product safety-related characteristics; --- it is output of product design and development process.
e) identification and controls of safety-related characteristics of product and at the point of manufacture --- is output of manufacturing design and development process.

Jelly
 

QualitySpirit

Involved In Discussions
#5
Thanks for your answer.

As I understand from your reply, you mean that IATF made a mistake in writing the standard and instead of " identification of controls ..." they wrote "identification and controls ...".

I think it is strange that IATF made such mistake.
I would not dare to say IATF made a mistake..:nope: I only said it looks weird to me and the sentence did confuse you and me. :confused:

As you see there is already a sentence identification of the characteristics, it does not make sense to write a duplicate one in another sub-clause. So I can only guess that for the second one;

identification and controls = identification (of controls) and implementation those controls.

Perhaps, a native English speaker in this forum could give a better translation on this one.
 
P

PEQC.Moon

#7
[SIZE="<font><font>2</font></font>"]Hello. I am an IATF16949 consultant in Korea.
I thought this was a safety feature.
D) is the product characteristic, and e) is the process characteristic.
For example, d) can be the run-out of the brake disk.
E) can be the spindle rpm of the plant producing it.: notme :[/SIZE]
 
#8
I am interpreting this a little different.

d) Refers to the product characteristics or safety characteristic is part of your upfront product development and is cascaded through your DFME to PFMEA and to your control plans.

e) I believe is how do you cascade it down to the production floor an this can be done in your job specific instructions etc.

I think the even bigger part of this is the escalation process. If a safety characteristic is not met how is it escalated?

The definition called out in the standard for Product Safety states "Standards relating to the design and manufacturing of products to ensure they do not represent harm or hazards to customers"
 

LUV-d-4UM

Quite Involved in Discussions
#10
It is not a mistake!
d) identification of product safety-related characteristics; --- it is output of product design and development process.
e) identification and controls of safety-related characteristics of product and at the point of manufacture --- is output of manufacturing design and development process.

Jelly
IT can be a component of a procedure for Management of Change.:applause:
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
earl62 IATF 16949 Clause 9.1.1.1 - What is the batch conformance to specification method? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
P IATF 16949 Clause 8.4.2.3 - Justification for non-certified suppliers IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 14
M IATF 16949:2016 clause 8.4.2.3 - We don't have ISO 9001:2015 certificate IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 26
R Material safety data sheet (MSDS) related clause in IATF 16949 manual IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 17
R IATF 16949 Clause 8.5.1.6 a) maintenance and repair facilities - Production tooling management and personnel IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
QChas IATF 16949 Clause 8.5.1.2 - C -Standardized Work IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 1
N Looking for input on the attached Process / IATF 16949 Clause Matrix IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
R IATF 16949 Clause 6.1.2.1 - Lessons Learned and Risk Analysis IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 6
L IATF 16949 Clause 9.2.2.2 Quality Management System Audit IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 9
H IATF 16949 Clause 9.2.2.2 Audit System / CSR IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 1
B IATF 16949 clause 7.1.5.1.1 - Statistical studies shall be conducted IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
P Interesting Discussion IATF 16949:2016 Clause 9.2.2.3 and Layered Process Audits IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 18
M Reference to IATF 16949 clause 8.4.3 in clause 8.3.4.4, Is it right? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 1
M IATF 16949 Clause 8.3.5.2 sub-clause (l) - Process maintainability requirements IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 15
J IATF 16949 Clause 9.3.2.1 - How to understand "measures" IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
J How to address IATF 16949 clause 5.1.1.1 in my Quality Manual IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 6
B IATF 16949 clause 8.3.4.3 Prototype programme IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 0
DeeDeeM IATF 16949 - Clause 8.5.2 Identification and Traceability IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 7
W IATF 16949 Clause 6.1.1 - My first Major NCR (Management Review) IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 57
A Escalation Process - IATF 16949 Clause 4.4.1.2 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 11
E IATF 16949 Clause of 8.4.3 - Approvals - Can you explain to me IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 1
B IATF 16949 Clause 9.2.2.2 - Which QMS Processes are Included IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 1
J What are sample documents of IATF 16949 Clause 8.6.4 a? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
S IATF 16949 Clause 8.3.3.3 - Documentation of all Special Characteristics in Drawings IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
B IATF 16949 Section Clause 8.3.4.1 - Monitoring - Design and Development Input(s) IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
B IATF 16949 Clause 8.6.2 - Layout Inspection and Functional Testing IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 11
B IATF 16949 Clause 9.3.2.1 - Management Review Inputs IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 1
T Customer Authorization for Concession - IATF 16949 Clause 8.5.1.1 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
W IATF 16949 Clause 8.4.2.4.1 Second Party Audits (Supplier Management) IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 45
T Record Retention Requirements - IATF 16949 Clause 7.5.3.2.1 Records and Data - Quality, Legal and Other Evidence 15
B IATF 16949 Clause 8.5.6.1.1 (Temporary Process Control Change) IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 24
T Temporary Change of Process Controls - IATF 16949 Clause 8.5.5.1.1 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 16
B IATF 16949 Clause 8.4.1.2 - Supplier Selection Process - Service Providers IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 11
J IATF 16949 Clause 8.7.1.7 Nonconforming Product Disposition - Scrap Rendered Unusable IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 64
M IATF 16949 Clause 4.4.1.2 - Product Safety - Concept of the Title IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
M IATF 16949 Clause 7.1.5.1.1 - What are "inspection equipment systems"? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
P Setup Verification in IATF 16949 Clause 8.5.1.3 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 6
D Does IATF 16949:2016 Clause 7.3 (now 8.3) Apply to "Grandfathered" Products IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
J IATF 16949 Clause 8.7.1.7 Nonconforming Product Disposition Compliance IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 38
M Exclusion of IATF 16949 Clause 4.4.1.2 - Product Safety IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
P Problem with IATF 16949 Clause 7.2.3 Requirements (Internal Auditor Competency) IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
M Compliance with IATF 16949 Clause 8.3.4.4 Product Approval Process IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
dubrizo IATF 16949 Clause 8.7.1.6 - Customer Notification - Your Inputs Requested IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
P IATF 16949 Clause 8.5.6.1.1 - Temporary Change of Process Controls IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 21
M IATF 16949 Clause 8.3 - Rework Records Requirements IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 1
J What results need to be defined in IATF 16949 Clause 8.3.4 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
P IATF 16949 Clause 10.2.4 - Error Proofing IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 25
P IATF 16949 Clause 8.5.1.4 - Verification after Shutdown IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 12
J How to understand IATF 16949 Clause 8.5.6.1.1 - Process Controls IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
J How to understand IATF 16949 Clause 8.5.2.1 - Traceability IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 5

Similar threads

Top Bottom