PPAP and AIAG in non-QS/TS company - Tier 2 Supplier

[apestate]

when being required to present a part submission warrant along with the PPAP to a TS-16949 organization, is it expected that we comply fully with the AIAG standards as laid out in PPAP-3?

I have difficulty putting together the things they require and reading from the AIAG manuals. It seems like we're giving the AIAG standards and the PPAP lip service but not participating in the full standard. Is there any difficulty here?

When I submit a part submission warrant level 3, should I have followed all of the PPAP guidelines.?.. this just seems way over my head. Should the customer ask for a level 4 instead... should we be exempt from the AIAG standards... how do we participate without taking on TS ourselves?

 

[apestate]

I guess my answer is "customer requirements"

I'm just confused. For example, are TS-16949 companies following PPAP-3 to the letter of the standard? Are they required to?

Are their ISO 9001:2000 suppliers submitting warrants according to the exact requirements of each of the 5 levels?

How are these AIAG standards being used?

 

[The Taz!]

Bottom line. . . 1) if the customer requires it. . . do it, and 2) if it is worth doing, do it right.

The AIAG manuals have been a good reference and as far as I am concerned, and make a heck of a lot more sense that do the requirements of TS. The manuals "instruct" not just state requirements.

There are customer specifics in TS. . . because they cannot agree on how to do the simplest things. Less so in the AIAG manuals.

 

[The Taz!]

I guess my answer is "customer requirements"

I'm just confused. For example, are TS-16949 companies following PPAP-3 to the letter of the standard? Are they required to?

Are their ISO 9001:2000 suppliers submitting warrants according to the exact requirements of each of the 5 levels?

How are these AIAG standards being used?

From my experience, ISO suppliers are also submitting the PPAP's. They are coached and led by the QS/TS customer in what the customer wants and needs. Yes. . . TS companies ARE required to submit PPAP's from suppliers. That requirement is stated in TS and all 3 (GM, Ford, Daimler/Chrysler) customer specific requirements.

They can be found on the IAOB web site IAOB.org along with FAQ's and sanctioned interpretations.

Btw. . . if the customer only wants a warrant (Level 1), you are still required to produce the full Level 3 and maintain it as a record.

 

[Bill Ryan - 2007]

I'm in full agreement with Taz. Unless your customer waives something or another, you need to follow the 19 bulleted items in the Table on page 16 of the PPAP manual (3rd ed.). To take Taz's "Level 1" comment a bit further, the "Level" only dictates what the customer expects to receive. Any submission requires following all 19 items. (Note that item 19 is "Records of Compliance with Customer-Specific Requirements"). Most of my customers have produced a Supplier Quality Manual and most of those contain exactly what is required from "other than" the OEMs for a submission.

While your "confusion" is understandable, don't let it overwhelm you. The PPAP manual is pretty well written and it, along with the other members of the "7-pack", are fairly easy to follow. You should not have any problems with a submission if you use the manuals along with communicating with your customer(s).

Good luck,
Bill

 

[The Taz!]

Bill. ..you agreed with me! LOL

 

[bpritts]

I must agree with the Taz and Bill. To meet customer requirements, you need
to either (a) follow the whole AIAG Adv Qual Plan process and PPAP or (b)
get the customer to waive parts of it. And, as has been pointed out,
they need to specifically waive the requirement, not just set the level
to a different submission level. The method requires that you do all the
steps regardless of the submission level.

Many customer SQA's will help you do the AQP, particularly if you're a new
supplier. OR, find a local consultant-- may not be cheap, but probably
cheaper than learning the whole art yourself, if you only do 1 or 2 a year.
I have done this kind of work for clients here in the Detroit area and I
am sure that there would be knowledgeable local people there in Wisconsin.

Regards,
Brad

 

[Al Dyer]

Great comments, and...

APQP/PPAp needs to be thought of as an internal benefit and not just a customer requirement. This is the point at which product is developed, process defined, and key measurables for continuous improvement determined. Though it sounds corny, make it as pleasurable an experience as possible.

Al...

 

[The Taz!]

Great comments, and...

APQP/PPAp needs to be thought of as an internal benefit and not just a customer requirement. This is the point at which product is developed, process defined, and key measurables for continuous improvement determined. Though it sounds corny, make it as pleasurable an experience as possible.

Al...

I guess that is why it is in "Product Realization". . .

 

[Sam]

when being required to present a part submission warrant along with the PPAP to a TS-16949 organization, is it expected that we comply fully with the AIAG standards as laid out in PPAP-3?

If your customer has requested a level 3, yes, you are required to meet all of the requirements of the level 3 as specified in the list on page 16 of the PPAP manual.

I have difficulty putting together the things they require and reading from the AIAG manuals. It seems like we're giving the AIAG standards and the PPAP lip service but not participating in the full standard. Is there any difficulty here?

Seek advice from your customer. It is there responsibility, as part of there supplier development program to provide you guidance.

When I submit a part submission warrant level 3, should I have followed all of the PPAP guidelines.?.. this just seems way over my head. Should the customer ask for a level 4 instead... should we be exempt from the AIAG standards... how do we participate without taking on TS ourselves?

Not clear as to what you are asking. You must follow all of the requirements for a level 3 submittal. However, you must maintain a level 5 as part of your records. Refer to 3rd para. of 1.2.2.