You don't need to do a whole system wide audit! You can break it down to a smaller, more manageable 'scope' of one process or two if they cause problems interacting etc. You can scale back the size/time and scope of your audit to make it manageable. Don't feel like you have to replicate what the Cb does at the initial certification audit.
You don't need to do a whole system wide audit! You can break it down to a smaller, more manageable 'scope' of one process or two if they cause problems interacting etc. You can scale back the size/time and scope of your audit to make it manageable. Don't feel like you have to replicate what the Cb does at the initial certification audit.
D
dsh205
I did cut it down to just one section, (7.1) .... I'm only dealing with two possibly three people with this section (small company).
Are you suggesting breaking it into the sub-sections?
Don't do it by ISO section! Do it by process...possibly even a sub process. You may need to go back to the whole concept of why you are doing audits, and understand the idea of a number of audits being done based on 'status and importance'. You have to grasp the significance of this, before you decide what you're going to audit. Sadly, in auditor training courses, this aspect is often completely overlooked - but that's another story!
Look at process, process performance, relationship to problems, customer issues etc and then decide what to focus on. Let's say you have late delivery performance as a key issue. What would you audit to decide why that was? Would you look to see if sales were being made on old info? Is it because there's a parts shortage because a supplier screwed up a delivery etc etc.
When you go about scheduling audits in consideration of these things, management will see how the other types of audits are bogus!
D
dsh205
Got it ...
I guess I was just focusing on the task presented to me, it went something like this .... "come up with this years audit schedule and make sure the audit checklist is up to date and includes all of AS9100C requirements ....."
I guess I was just focusing on the task presented to me, it went something like this .... "come up with this years audit schedule and make sure the audit checklist is up to date and includes all of AS9100C requirements ....."
OK, another fallacy! Good stuff! You don't HAVE to have a whole year's worth of audits scheduled out. Indeed, contrary to what many people think, it's almost impossible to do that without a very fine, calibrated and verified crystal ball!
Yes, there are some things which cause heart ache on some form of time based event - like vacation time, if you don't shut down, or when you expect a regular customer/regulatory audit or CB audit. Otherwise, whatever you commit to auditing will, a) either miss the critical event or b) have you constantly changing your mind about what to audit and when. If you want to look 'stupid' in the eyes of your management, go ahead and try THAT one!
Here's some thing I may not have posted before for you on this topic...
S
Santa
Re: Intro and internal audit question
I would like to see the audit matrix you have written about. Thank you for your time.
I would like to see the audit matrix you have written about. Thank you for your time.
Helmut Jilling
Auditor / Consultant
Re: Intro and internal audit question
Santa, what matrix are you asking about? This is an old thread... Your internal audits should be set up to audit your processes, not just the sections or a checklist approach.
Santa, what matrix are you asking about? This is an old thread... Your internal audits should be set up to audit your processes, not just the sections or a checklist approach.
A
ahollandutk
Re: Intro and internal audit question
I am working with a company that is trying to prepare for our internal audit. I found this post from 2011 saying that you had a template for ISO 9001:2008 internal audits. I have been so fortunate to find Elsmar Cove and I would greatly appreciate any help you might be able to give me!!! Finding a good template has been difficult!
I am working with a company that is trying to prepare for our internal audit. I found this post from 2011 saying that you had a template for ISO 9001:2008 internal audits. I have been so fortunate to find Elsmar Cove and I would greatly appreciate any help you might be able to give me!!! Finding a good template has been difficult!
Re: Intro and internal audit question
When you read various threads + posts here, you may have noticed that most of us here are not in favor of what I call "shopping list audits." If you are preparing for the initial stages 1 and 2 audits, and just want to verify compliance, then a check list may help. Once all pieces of your QMS are in place, you want to verify EFFECTIVENESS of each of your processes in your QMS. That lets you know how WELL each process performs in delivering the expected results.
At any rate, if you really like to look at checklists.... Here you go.
When you read various threads + posts here, you may have noticed that most of us here are not in favor of what I call "shopping list audits." If you are preparing for the initial stages 1 and 2 audits, and just want to verify compliance, then a check list may help. Once all pieces of your QMS are in place, you want to verify EFFECTIVENESS of each of your processes in your QMS. That lets you know how WELL each process performs in delivering the expected results.
At any rate, if you really like to look at checklists.... Here you go.
J
Jamie_
Re: Intro and internal audit question
I am also not in favor of shopping list audits (great turn of phrase) but I do use something that came in handy when our system was new, and is useful for auditors in training or new.
Tab 1 is the 9001-2008 standard to our internal SOPs that meet it. Tab 2 is our audit breakdown (what we'll cover in 12 months) and which SOPs are relevant (in whole or part) to each, and tab 3 is a basic list of questions which is by no means comprehensive, but a sample to show new auditors of how they are to be auditing our processes and how that meets the standard.
I still use the checklist format as a reminder of the major points I need to hit so I make sure I don't miss anything, but I don't go through the list like a census taker. It's a guideline.
(just an fyi to new auditors, we will all absolutely have our own way of doing things - this would be total overkill for some but I don't have a QC department and I have 13 auditors none of whom have a background in QC so I needed a really clear reference.)
I'm attaching it in case anyone might find it helpful.
I am also not in favor of shopping list audits (great turn of phrase) but I do use something that came in handy when our system was new, and is useful for auditors in training or new.
Tab 1 is the 9001-2008 standard to our internal SOPs that meet it. Tab 2 is our audit breakdown (what we'll cover in 12 months) and which SOPs are relevant (in whole or part) to each, and tab 3 is a basic list of questions which is by no means comprehensive, but a sample to show new auditors of how they are to be auditing our processes and how that meets the standard.
I still use the checklist format as a reminder of the major points I need to hit so I make sure I don't miss anything, but I don't go through the list like a census taker. It's a guideline.
(just an fyi to new auditors, we will all absolutely have our own way of doing things - this would be total overkill for some but I don't have a QC department and I have 13 auditors none of whom have a background in QC so I needed a really clear reference.)
I'm attaching it in case anyone might find it helpful.
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