Are ISO/TS 16949:2009 requirements applicable to our non-automotive products?

[Sundaramurthi]

Dear Sirs,

I need your help to clarify a doubt... We have ISO/TS16949:2009 place. We manufacture a component for Huyndai Car Company which they use it in the car. The rest of the products that we make supplied to other industries that is not related to automotive.

Here comes my doubt that ISAR, DEFMEA, PFMEA, Control Plan, Product audit, Process audit etc., to be done only for the product that we supply to car company or to be done for all products including non-automotive products that we make and supply. Pls. explain.


Thanks in advance.

Regards,

S.Sundaramurthi

 

[tbsiva]

The scope of the audit is limited to automotive applications only and you need not have to implement all these things for other parts when u talk from ISO/TS audit point of view. Even ur auditor will not ask u any questions if u say that the particular product goes to non automotive.....

Anyway, coming out from audit point of view and thinking on the product front, its really better to implement the systems u learn from TS to other non automotive parts also

 

[AgnieszkaSz]

From my experience - we have some customers who demand ISO/TS, not as certificate only but as whole methodology, although they are not automotive. So customer's voice as first choice. But we use PFMEA, SPC and MSA also for railway customers, who don't demand this - simply because our experience shows that this work pays off, even with project-driven production. So common sense as next step.

 

[howste]

As was mentioned above, the automotive requirements are not required to be applied to non-automotive products. Your TS 16949 auditor will only audit the TS16949 requirements for product produced for TS 16949 subscribing customer(s).

 

[sitapaty]

As was mentioned above, the automotive requirements are not required to be applied to non-automotive products. Your TS 16949 auditor will only audit the TS16949 requirements for product produced for TS 16949 subscribing customer(s).

I beg to disagree here.The certifying auditor or even a customers auditor will audit strictly as per the quality manual and the applicable standard of the organization.Therefore TS 16949 REQUIREMENTS ARE APPLICABLE EVEN FOR NON AUTOMOTIVE PRODUCTS.
If an organization is not applying TS requirement to all its products it can not label itself as a TS 16949 company.Double standards canot be followed to our convenience.
Sitapaty

 

[sitapaty]

The TS documents you have mentioned can be prepared for the process family and not necessarily seperate documents for each product you are producing.There are organizationg which produce thousands of distinct products.If they prepare seperate documents for each product they will be spending more time in preparation of documents than for producing the parts.
Therefore it is adviceable and acceptable if you prepare documents for family of parts or family of the process.
So here you can combine automotive and non-automotive products in the process family and prepare a common document for the whole family.
Sitapaty

 

[somashekar]

I beg to disagree here.The certifying auditor or even a customers auditor will audit strictly as per the quality manual and the applicable standard of the organization.Therefore TS 16949 REQUIREMENTS ARE APPLICABLE EVEN FOR NON AUTOMOTIVE PRODUCTS.
If an organization is not applying TS requirement to all its products it can not label itself as a TS 16949 company.Double standards canot be followed to our convenience.
Sitapaty

Dear Murthi.
Did you get what Sitapaty has just said so strongly ....
TS is a sector specific (automotive) technical specification built over the good ISO 9001 foundation. It never says that it is a sin if you adopt this TS to other products that need not get into a automotive.
So it all depends upon you and how you bring out the scope of your quality management system. If you are aligning to TS across the company for all your products, go ahead.
If you want a two way approach, then detail the same in your scope of the QMS and then map accordingly. You will not lose anything, but if you want to build a culture and surge ahead to be more of a quality automotive supplier and if this is the management focus (ask your management) then stick to the TS across all your products and systems.
OR
If you feel yourself overburdened, have the ISO 9001 + TS 16949, and in the QMS documentation say clearly what applies to where, within the scope of the manual. Get two certificates (ISO 9001 and TS 16949) each saying about the scope that applies. Your other post about the similar subject might have given you some confidence to have two certifications.

 

[somashekar]

Dear Sirs,

I need your help to clarify a doubt... We have ISO/TS16949:2009 place. We manufacture a component for Huyndai Car Company which they use it in the car. The rest of the products that we make supplied to other industries that is not related to automotive.

Here comes my doubt that ISAR, DEFMEA, PFMEA, Control Plan, Product audit, Process audit etc., to be done only for the product that we supply to car company or to be done for all products including non-automotive products that we make and supply. Pls. explain.


Thanks in advance.

Regards,

S.Sundaramurthi

I am surprised as to why your CB did not direct you and help you go through the dual certification at the first instant.

Never hide anything from your doctor, lawyer and CB ....

 

[howste]

I beg to disagree here.The certifying auditor or even a customers auditor will audit strictly as per the quality manual and the applicable standard of the organization.Therefore TS 16949 REQUIREMENTS ARE APPLICABLE EVEN FOR NON AUTOMOTIVE PRODUCTS.
If an organization is not applying TS requirement to all its products it can not label itself as a TS 16949 company.Double standards canot be followed to our convenience.
Sitapaty

I strongly disagree with your disagreement! It's not about "our convenience" it's about the rules. I'm a 3rd-party TS 16949 auditor, and it's strongly emphasized in the qualification process that the only samples I should look at in a TS 16949 audit are those relevant to automotive product for subscribing customers. If the client requests it, I may also include other automotive product for customers that don't subscribe to TS 16949.

At the request of the client to the certification body, the scope of certification may also include manufacturing meeting the applicability of ISO/TS 16949:2002 for products supplied to customers not subscribing to ISO/TS 16949:2002.

I'm required to be prepared to audit

...all requirements of the client's quality management system implemented to meet the automotive requirements of those customers requiring ISO/TS 16949:2002 certification

In short, non-automotive product is not to be considered in the TS 16949 audit.

 

[harry]

I strongly disagree with your disagreement! It's not about "our convenience" it's about the rules............................

Thanks for stepping in to correct some common misinterpretations. Another one pertains to 'dedicated' production lines.

Some previous discussion threads:

TS 16949 and non automotive products

Production lines HAVE to be dedicated to only automotive products for TS 16949?