Ok, just a thought.
Does your Registrar ask folks "Who's the Management Representative"?
- Thread starter AndyN
- Start date
Ok, just a thought.
Helmut Jilling
Auditor / Consultant
After reading all these posts, I still think it's a bizarre question which has no good reason behind it. Even if 'top management' selected the person as the Management Representative, why would someone go ask them who that is? I 'hear' all the responses about getting access to the MR, or similar, however, even if everyone knows the name, height and inside leg measurement, there's no 'benefit' to posing the question.
It seems to me that it's another case of lazy auditors and organizations preparing to do anything to pass the audit
Andy
I'm coming into this thread late, and missed all the fun...
I don't think the debate as to whether we are allowed to ask this or is it required, or are we lazy, or depth of questions, etc. is relevant.I go to a lot of depth in auditing the meaningfulness and effectiveness of a system. I may have asked it in rare cases, but generally don't see much point. The MR is usually standing next to me, and people always seem to know who he/she is, so it seemed irrelevant. I can think of many betetr ways to probe the relative depth of a system. But, I certainly wouldn't suggest we are not allowed to ask it.
L
Laura M
The way I see it is the MR's job is to ensure ISO is implemented. It's probably a 'better system' if everyone doesn't know who the "ISO guy/gal" is. It's just they way things get done. Not because of ISO.
If a procedure specifically states, 'consult with ISO management rep' to get a copy of the procedures, or any other reference that would infer the rep is involved with the process being audited, then asking that person who the representative is makes sense. Otherwise, it's a weak question at best. If fact, I've seen it asked in organizations with a very strong ISO system where people aren't sure who the ISO MR is
, and vice versa in cultures where 'uh-oh, here comes the ISO person' so everyone knows who it is, but the processes are not followed nearly as well.
If a procedure specifically states, 'consult with ISO management rep' to get a copy of the procedures, or any other reference that would infer the rep is involved with the process being audited, then asking that person who the representative is makes sense. Otherwise, it's a weak question at best. If fact, I've seen it asked in organizations with a very strong ISO system where people aren't sure who the ISO MR is
, and vice versa in cultures where 'uh-oh, here comes the ISO person' so everyone knows who it is, but the processes are not followed nearly as well.
P
potdar
No Coury, everyone in the organisation does not need to know who is the MR. But some people do. ISO 9001 does not specify who. The organisation management defines it. In their QMS. That is the interpretation of ISO for their setup.
5.5.2 does not talk about anybody knowing anything. But I dont know why everybody is closing their eyes to 5.5.1, which says:
Top management shall ensure that the responsibilities and authorities are defined and communicated within the organisation.
I dont think any of us on the cove here would accept if the management has not defined the R&A of the MR.
But I dont know why everybody is closing their eyes to 5.5.1, which says:
Top management shall ensure that the responsibilities and authorities are defined and communicated within the organisation.
I dont think any of us on the cove here would accept if the management has not defined the R&A of the MR.
That's an interesting spin on things, but I don't believe that it means the same thing as communicating everyone's R & A to everyone else, including that of the MR...........
Andy
I just reviewed ISO9001:2000, paragraph 5.5.1, and I still don't understand why you are trying to stand on this paragraph. The communication can be in the form of the Quality Policy/procedures.
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potdar
That's an interesting spin on things, but I don't believe that it means the same thing as communicating everyone's R & A to everyone else, including that of the MR...........
Andy
No Andy,
EVERYBODY need not know about EVERYBODY else's R&A. Only those who are supposed to know, need to know. You and me don't define that. The management does. We only check and comment whether its sufficient and is followed.
Potdar
I'm coming into this thread late, and missed all the fun...
That is ok for coming late into this thread. Your comments are always welcomed by me.
