PPAP customer requirements in the APQP

[Pau Calvo]

No, none of our customers ask for them and neither us ask them to the toolmaker.
This shocked me when I started on this company, in my previous job on a plastic injection molding company, was a requeriment from all customer and also from us.

I guess that for the aluminium injection it is not that critical...

 

[Jim Wynne]

No, none of our customers ask for them and neither us ask them to the toolmaker.
This shocked me when I started on this company, in my previous job on a plastic injection molding company, was a requeriment from all customer and also from us.

I guess that for the aluminium injection it is not that critical...

As we continue to peel back the layers, is your tooling made by an external source? If so, are you saying that you don't require dimensional reports (and your own confirmation of same) as a condition of tooling approval (and payment)?

 

[Pau Calvo]

Yes, is outsorced and ofcourse that we made validation of the parts on the trials to ensure the quality and validate the tool but this is internal procedure.
I understand your point, but customer is making requeriments from thin air. If they need FoT dimensional reports for validation should be agreed before hand.

 

[Jim Wynne]

Yes, is outsorced and ofcourse that we made validation of the parts on the trials to ensure the quality and validate the tool but this is internal procedure.
I understand your point, but customer is making requeriments from thin air. If they need FoT dimensional reports for validation should be agreed before hand.

As far as I have been informed, this requeriment was not in the purchase order, anyway customer did not send any global schedule for the project.
We, as standard, only include dimensional reports for the PPAP samples in the offer of the project. Further dimensional reports have to ordered outside the main order of the project. We proceed that way to avoid that our customer could keep asking for dimensional reports and overrun our metrological department.

Whomever it is that's responsible for the APQP process and submission of the PPAP should be well-acquainted with the purchase order and the customer requirements. You say that as far as you've been informed there is no requirement, which seems to mean that you're not sure. I'm sympathetic to the idea of not letting customers ask for things that weren't contractually agreed to, especially if those things weren't accounted for in pricing. The problem is that you indicate that the tooling qualification data is available and no additional expense will be incurred, so I don't know why you don't just give it to them. Presumably the tooling belongs to the customer, so it doesn't seem to be an unreasonable request. I know it might not be a part of a standard PPAP submission, and the customer should be specifying submission of the data before PPAP submission, but it should be enough now to (a) review the purchase order yourself and see what's there, and (b) if there is no mention of or reference to requirements to submit tooling qualification data, inform the customer of that fact and that in the future you will only be beholden to contractual requirements. In the meantime though, you should just give it to them.

 

[Golfman25]

Yes, is outsorced and ofcourse that we made validation of the parts on the trials to ensure the quality and validate the tool but this is internal procedure.
I understand your point, but customer is making requeriments from thin air. If they need FoT dimensional reports for validation should be agreed before hand.

I am going to disagree. First off tooling dimensional reports are a standard requirement for any good supplier/customer relationship. It sets the standard so if there is an issue down the line everyone at least knows where they started. The supplier is basically saying -- "this is what we got, if it's good we are good to go."

 

[toniriazor]

Hello all

In regards to FORD Customer Specific Requirement clause 8.6.2:

"
8.6.2 Layout inspection and functional testing
The organization shall perform annually a layout inspection (to all dimensional
requirements) on at least 5 parts.
Where tooling has multiple cavities, tools or centers, the organization conducts the
annual layout on at least one part from each cavity, tool or center, with a minimum
overall sample of 5 parts.
Note: 5 parts are not required from each cavity; tool or center, only a minimum of 1 part
is required from each cavity, tool or center.
The measurements are to be documented on the APQP/PPAP Evidence Workbook
(Prototype or Production Measurement Results section), available through
Home Realm Discovery ."

does this mean we as Tier 1 manufacturing plant of wiring harnesses EDS commodity need to perform end of each year 5 dimensional reports on a wire harness we choose or we cover this requirement with the 100% measurement of each wire harness in the beginning of the shift and when there is a part number change during actual production run?

I believe what we have in the process now covers the clause 8.6.2 because 100% measurement of a wire harness is performed more than 5 times annually in fact dimensional measurement it is performed each day but on the other hand the clause might be interpreted as a way to perform something like annual manufacturing process re-validation or at least our STA (supplier technical assistant) once insisted on that and explained it like that as far as I remember

What is your opinion and what exactly is the correct way to go ?

Thank you all for valuable input.

 

[Jim Wynne]

With annual layouts, you're expected to perform and submit dimensional reports for each each assembly just as it was submitted in the original PPAP.

 

[toniriazor]

and when is the right time to make the annual layouts ? at end of the year or is better after another event (big design change, process change, material change and etc) since the risk to have deviation in process is higher after such events ? also would it be OK to take the data which has already been collected throughout the last few months and put in a dimensional report form ?

 

[Miner]

Unless you want to have a large backlog at the end of the year, I would space them out throughout the year and fit them in around hectic times. You can start by scheduling them approximately a year after the PPAP was submitted or approved. Don't paint yourself into a corner in your procedure either. Allow some flexibility in the schedule and consider vacations, holidays, etc. If you have scheduled downtime in the plant during parts of the year, you might consider using that time.

 

[Jim Wynne]

and when is the right time to make the annual layouts ?

In general, the annual-layout requirement clock starts ticking when the PPAP is approved. Also generally, it's expected that there will be 12 months between layout submissions. The requirements can vary widely among individual customers, so it's best to find out what's expected and not guess.