AS9100 section 7.6 "D" - Equipment shall be safeguarded from adjustments

[Eloy Gomez]

Not sure if this post should go in the AS9100 section but it is a calibration question.

We are an aerospace company compiant to ISO/AS9100 and during the course of the internal audit of our calibration process it was determined that we were not in compliance with AS9100 section 7.6 "D"

d) ...equipment shall be safeguarded from adjustments that would invalidate the measurement result;

We contacted our calibration house (we do not calibrate inhouse) and they told us that per their calibration standard - that safeguarding instruments from adjustments was not a requirement. Our calibration house is accredited to ISO/IEC 17025:2005 & ANSI/NCSL Z540-1-1994.

We ask them to safeguard our equipment that they calibrate from being manipulated and from any adjustments that would invalidate the measurement result. They stated this was not a standard requirement and if we wanted this then it would be an extra cost. If an instrument is being calibrated how much effort can it take to place some goo on the treads or a label to ensure no one has tampered with the instrument.

Thoughts on this?

 

[Jerry Eldred]

Re: AS9100 section 7.6 "D" equipment shall be safeguarded from adjustments .....

ISO17025:2005 paragraph 5.5.12 states: "...Test and calibration equipment, including both hardware and software, shall be safeguarded from adjustments which would invalidate the test and/or calibration results."

So if they are providing ISO17025 accredited cals, it is a requirement. If the calibrations they are providing you claim to ISO17025 compliant, I believe that it is also a requirement.

 

[Eloy Gomez]

Re: AS9100 section 7.6 "D" equipment shall be safeguarded from adjustments .....

ISO17025:2005 paragraph 5.5.12 states: "...Test and calibration equipment, including both hardware and software, shall be safeguarded from adjustments which would invalidate the test and/or calibration results."

So if they are providing ISO17025 accredited cals, it is a requirement. If the calibrations they are providing you claim to ISO17025 compliant, I believe that it is also a requirement.

Thanks Jerry, I did not have a copy of the standard at hand, now I can go fight the battle.

 

[howste]

Re: AS9100 section 7.6 "D" equipment shall be safeguarded from adjustments .....

ISO17025:2005 paragraph 5.5.12 states: "...Test and calibration equipment, including both hardware and software, shall be safeguarded from adjustments which would invalidate the test and/or calibration results."

So if they are providing ISO17025 accredited cals, it is a requirement. If the calibrations they are providing you claim to ISO17025 compliant, I believe that it is also a requirement.

The paragraph you're quoting is talking about the equipment that the lab is using, not the equipment that they are calibrating for their customers. I'm afraid that using this paragraph as an argument would be pointless. I don't see any other requirements in ISO 17025:2005 that require it to be done on equipment being calibrated.

We ask them to safeguard our equipment that they calibrate from being manipulated and from any adjustments that would invalidate the measurement result. They stated this was not a standard requirement and if we wanted this then it would be an extra cost. If an instrument is being calibrated how much effort can it take to place some goo on the treads or a label to ensure no one has tampered with the instrument.

Unfortunately if they choose to charge extra to apply a label or "goo on threads" then it's their right. Since it's so simple, why don't you get some labels and goo and do it yourself? I used to do this with my company's equipment - the goo I used was fingernail polish. It doesn't take an accredited lab to do it.

 

[jfgunn]

Re: AS9100 section 7.6 "D" equipment shall be safeguarded from adjustments .....

ISO17025:2005 paragraph 5.5.12 states: "...Test and calibration equipment, including both hardware and software, shall be safeguarded from adjustments which would invalidate the test and/or calibration results."

So if they are providing ISO17025 accredited cals, it is a requirement. If the calibrations they are providing you claim to ISO17025 compliant, I believe that it is also a requirement.

This requirement in ISO 17025 is for the equipment used by the ISO 17025 Accredited lab's equipment that they use to calibrate your equipment.

IMO, this requirement does not apply to items they are calibrating.

This being said, what type of equipment is being done where the won't provide this? "Cal Void if broken" seals are pretty cheap.

Where in the country are you located where the economy is so good that the calibration lab thinks they can dictate to you - the customer?

I suggest you tell them what you need to consider the work complete for you and that you want it done for the same price. If they won't do it, shop around.

I do things for my customers all the time that I don't beleive are necessary. I call it customer service and thank them for their business.

 

[Eloy Gomez]

Re: AS9100 section 7.6 "D" equipment shall be safeguarded from adjustments .....

The paragraph you're quoting is talking about the equipment that the lab is using, not the equipment that they are calibrating for their customers. I'm afraid that using this paragraph as an argument would be pointless. .

This requirement in ISO 17025 is for the equipment used by the ISO 17025 Accredited lab's equipment that they use to calibrate your equipment. .

I guess I will not be fighting this battle afterall-

but I will have our calibration clerk contact our Calibration house and request that they safeguard our equipment for the same price. We do bring them plenty of business and I am sure there are other Calibration places that would love to have our business. We are not asking for much.

Thank you Howste and Jfgunn for clarifying the standard.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Re: AS9100 section 7.6 "D" equipment shall be safeguarded from adjustments .....

but I will have our calibration clerk contact our Calibration house and request that they safeguard our equipment for the same price.

You should have such requirement (amongst others) in your purchasing documents issued to the calibration lab. The section on purchasing requires the organization to specify the requirements associated with the procurement of products/services.

 

[BradM]

Re: AS9100 section 7.6 "D" equipment shall be safeguarded from adjustments .....

Not sure if this post should go in the AS9100 section but it is a calibration question.

We are an aerospace company compiant to ISO/AS9100 and during the course of the internal audit of our calibration process it was determined that we were not in compliance with AS9100 section 7.6 "D"

d) ...equipment shall be safeguarded from adjustments that would invalidate the measurement result;

We contacted our calibration house (we do not calibrate inhouse) and they told us that per their calibration standard - that safeguarding instruments from adjustments was not a requirement. Our calibration house is accredited to ISO/IEC 17025:2005 & ANSI/NCSL Z540-1-1994.

We ask them to safeguard our equipment that they calibrate from being manipulated and from any adjustments that would invalidate the measurement result. They stated this was not a standard requirement and if we wanted this then it would be an extra cost. If an instrument is being calibrated how much effort can it take to place some goo on the treads or a label to ensure no one has tampered with the instrument.

Thoughts on this?

If the above section of the AS9100 specification is accurate, then yes, the calibration instruments need to be safeguarded.

Most of the time I see such specifications, there is some provision like "where practical/ where applicable". There are some electronic instruments and such that is awfully difficult to put a seal on. Also, older handheld devices cannot have a seal, as the battery needs to be replaced.

Seals need to go over zero adjustment screws, and on screws for internal access to electronics, where there would be no reason for the user to have access.

Bottom line: your provider should be putting seals where appropriate anyway; especially if you ask them to. Shop around for other competent suppliers; that is not that unreasonable of a request. If your provider won't do it (they should), then place one (where applicable) upon incoming inspection of the instruments when they are returned.

Don't go crazy and put them on every screw and such. Just put them where the calibration adjustments can be safeguarded. Zero and span adjustments are the usual suspects.

Put the sticker where they can logically be placed, then train everyone not to be messing with stuff; and teach them the worth of having confidence in their calibrated instruments.

 

[Big Jim]

Re: AS9100 section 7.6 "D" equipment shall be safeguarded from adjustments .....

I guess I will not be fighting this battle afterall-

but I will have our calibration clerk contact our Calibration house and request that they safeguard our equipment for the same price. We do bring them plenty of business and I am sure there are other Calibration places that would love to have our business. We are not asking for much.

Thank you Howste and Jfgunn for clarifying the standard.

It may not be part of their standard, but it is part of the standard you need to live to, and that you contract with them to fulfill. I would talk to an owner or some officer in their company that has authority, and let them clearly know that you expect them, the experts, to perform as expected. If they won't, don't hesitate to start shopping around. When they notice that they have lost your business, you can tell them why. I just can't picture a responsible officer in a calibration shop not appropriately replying to your reasonable request.

I remember writing a nonconformance over a scale calibration certificate because there was no mention of NIST traceability on the certification. When the scale shop was called about it, there reply was "Oh, you want that, we can do that, but there is an extra charge". After a threat that the business would be taken elsewhere, they apologized and agreed to conform to how the rest of the calibration world functions. Then they asked for examples of how other calibration shops worded it on the certifications.

Do you really want to do business with suppliers that are not helpful? I would think not as long as you have a choice.

 

[brahmaiah]

Re: AS9100 section 7.6 "D" equipment shall be safeguarded from adjustments .....

Not sure if this post should go in the AS9100 section but it is a calibration question.

We are an aerospace company compiant to ISO/AS9100 and during the course of the internal audit of our calibration process it was determined that we were not in compliance with AS9100 section 7.6 "D"

d) ...equipment shall be safeguarded from adjustments that would invalidate the measurement result;

We contacted our calibration house (we do not calibrate inhouse) and they told us that per their calibration standard - that safeguarding instruments from adjustments was not a requirement. Our calibration house is accredited to ISO/IEC 17025:2005 & ANSI/NCSL Z540-1-1994.

We ask them to safeguard our equipment that they calibrate from being manipulated and from any adjustments that would invalidate the measurement result. They stated this was not a standard requirement and if we wanted this then it would be an extra cost. If an instrument is being calibrated how much effort can it take to place some goo on the treads or a label to ensure no one has tampered with the instrument.

Thoughts on this?

Deliberate tampering of an instrument is not considered by the authors of the standard.Only inadvertant lapses/ unauthorised adjustments are considered.
For example in case of adjustable snap gauges ,the adjusting screw are closed with sealing wax after calibration.
V.J.Brahmaiah
In