Documented Information - Periodic Review of Documents? IATF 16949:2016 / ISO 9001:2015

eule del ayre

Involved In Discussions
#1
Hello guys quick question for IATF 16949:2016 / ISO 9001:2015 regarding documented information, does it matter if your document needs to be updated or not? Cause i can't find in the ISO Standard that not updated document is a findings? any thoughts? please i need an answer to this, been bothering me since it's our Internal Audit this coming week.
 
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AMIT BALLAL

Trusted Information Resource
#2
Didn't understand your question fully. Trying to answer based on what I understood.

In IATF16949:2016 / ISO9001:2015, terms of Document & record changed to "Documented Information', the reason being whether record or document depends on context and how it is controlled by an organization. There is no requirement/need to change the title of your document/record to Documented information.

If you are asking about the updates in standard, documented information (document/record) required by these updated standards need to be available and compliance to be demonstrated during your audit.
 

eule del ayre

Involved In Discussions
#3
Didn't understand your question fully. Trying to answer based on what I understood.

In IATF16949:2016 / ISO9001:2015, terms of Document & record changed to "Documented Information', the reason being whether record or document depends on context and how it is controlled by an organization. There is no requirement/need to change the title of your document/record to Documented information.

If you are asking about the updates in standard, documented information (document/record) required by these updated standards need to be available and compliance to be demonstrated during your audit.
hmmmm thanks for your answer, ill give you an example ma'am/sir, here's the situation, you audit the person, and then saw that his/her work instruction was not updated, what will you do? are you going to call that out or not? because i can't find anything in the standard that the document Should be updated.
 

AMIT BALLAL

Trusted Information Resource
#4
hmmmm thanks for your answer, ill give you an example ma'am/sir, here's the situation, you audit the person, and then saw that his/her work instruction was not updated, what will you do? are you going to call that out or not? because i can't find anything in the standard that the document Should be updated.
Which standard are you referring to? ISO9001 / IATF16949. If you are referring to IATF16949, there is a new requirement to include safety instructions in your work instructions. IMHO auditor would & should generally check whether the new/ revised requirements as per the revised standard are being met.
 

John Predmore

Quite Involved in Discussions
#5
ISO9001 includes a clause on Control of Documented Information: 7.5.3.1 Documented information required by the QMS and by this International Standard shall be controlled to ensure: a. it is available and suitable for use, where and when it is needed; b. it is adequately protected (e.g., from loss of confidentiality, improper use, or loss of integrity). [emphasis added by me].

"Improper use" might describe use of outdated information. "Loss of integrity" might describe a system which fails to maintain accurate and up-to-date information.
 

eule del ayre

Involved In Discussions
#6
"Improper use" might describe use of outdated information. "Loss of integrity" might describe a system which fails to maintain accurate and up-to-date information.[/QUOTE]

well that makes sense sir, thank you for elaborating that one, especially the quoted one, i guess that is what im looking for, thank you very much sir.
godbless
 

brandieb1230

Involved In Discussions
#7
hmmmm thanks for your answer, ill give you an example ma'am/sir, here's the situation, you audit the person, and then saw that his/her work instruction was not updated, what will you do? are you going to call that out or not? because i can't find anything in the standard that the document Should be updated.

If the work instruction was not updated I would write a finding against ISO:9001- 7.5.3.2- a or c
7.5.3.2
For the control of documented information, the organization shall address the following activities, as applicable:

A. distribution, access, retrieval and use;- the use of the document is not right- they are not following the directions the work instruction lists
B. control of changes (e.g. version control);- this is the most obvious finding in most situations that I have encountered..

Hope that helps :)
 

eule del ayre

Involved In Discussions
#8
If the work instruction was not updated I would write a finding against ISO:9001- 7.5.3.2- a or c
7.5.3.2
For the control of documented information, the organization shall address the following activities, as applicable:

A. distribution, access, retrieval and use;- the use of the document is not right- they are not following the directions the work instruction lists
B. control of changes (e.g. version control);- this is the most obvious finding in most situations that I have encountered..

Hope that helps :)

Good morning sir, what i mean by updated is that our company was founded year 2000 but there are work instruction that are outdated but the process is still the same, is that a findings? that's what i've been pointing about, if you find a document that's not updated, for example the work instruction was dated way back 2013, but no change in the process, still the same, do you still need to call that out? and i don't really see where in the standard.
 

Howard Atkins

Forum Administrator
Staff member
Admin
#9
What is your definition of outdated?
Is the document accurate?
Does your document control procedure require you to review documents periodically?
You seem extremely worried if the documents are correct.
 

eule del ayre

Involved In Discussions
#10
What is your definition of outdated?
Is the document accurate?
Does your document control procedure require you to review documents periodically?
You seem extremely worried if the documents are correct.
Thank you sir for your concern, nope i don't really mind, because i can't seem to find that i should really update my work instruction if the process were still the same, outdated sir out of date, the work instruction was revised last 2013 but still in use up to today, but my Lead Auditor call it out, because it is said to be outdated, and the document is accurate, yes it is included in the procedure that the documents need to review periodically, but does not mean to revise it, and it doesn't include there, i just can't find the right words in the standard that the documents should be updated. If the work instruction dated in 2013 but still accurate about the process itself, why does my team leader call it out as a Findings. I just can't comprehend sir, i was thought by our SGS trainer that the audit is to find compliance not the opposite, the non compliance itself will come out once the process to complying doesn't match right sir?
 
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