Does this change mean a new PPAP?

[Casana]

Happy Valentine’s Day!

I’m trying to understand if a PPAP is required for a couple of situations I’ve got coming up… I’m having a hard time interpreting the requirements in the PPAP book so I thought I’d pick this group’s brains.. SO, do I need to do a PPAP on these??

1) Equipment is to be moved from current room to an adjacent newly built room

2) Equipment programming is being revised to stop automatically every 10 passes. Currently our documented instructions state that the operator is to stop the machine manually, but with this programming change the machine will stop itself. The change is being done to avoid operator error and ensure the process is stopped periodically.

Thanks for any comments!

 

[Al Dyer]

Casana,

1) If the location of the process within the same plant is moved but the process flow is the same, no need for PPAP. (I would still keep the lines of communication open with my SQA).

2) If you are replacing a manual step in the process with an automated step, the process has changed in my opinion, and needs to be relayed to the customer for both verification and acknowledgement that a continuous improvement/preventive action has been enacted and implemented.

(Don't forget FMEA review which could have driven this change!)

Kill two birds with one stone?

ASD...

------------------
Al Dyer
Mngt. Rep.
[email protected]

 

[AJLenarz]

If we are just talking PPAP rev 3 and no additional customer specific requirements, I understand the requirements as follows:

If the equipment is moved from one plant location to another, customer notification is required. The customer may subsequently elect to require submission for PPAP approval. If we are just talking about tool movement within the same plant (no change in process flow, no disassembly of the tool), customer notification is not required as long as it does not affect the 3 F’s (form, fit, or function).

As for the programming change, as long as you are using the same basic equipment, technology and methodology, no customer notification is required as long as it does not affect the 3 F’s.

I would personally recommend being pro-active and contact the customer and let them know what is going on. The odds are they don’t want to have to deal with the re-submittal any more than you do and you will not get into the argument later on whether or not there should have been another PPAP submittal.

That is my spin on the standard, anybody have other opinions?

 

[Marc]

->I would personally recommend being pro-active and contact
->the customer and let them know what is going on.

100% correct. Any other way and you spend 10 times as much time later over 'misunderstandings. Get agreement before you do what you want to do. I also suggest having a proposal ready and to be ready to explain why you believe your plan is appropriate. Many times you can get agreement on a reduced PPAP.

 

[J.R. Strickland]

Under PPAP, 3rd Edition, your first scenario would not require PPAP (barring any customer specific requirement) per Table I.3.3, #2. This would fall under the tool or equipment movement in the same plant...provided there have been no modifications to the process flow or control plan as documented in your PPAP.

Scenario 2, the programming change, could be viewed as an added control and effectively reducing the RPN on your PFMEA. It might then fall under the same table mentioned above, but item #6. However, if this control is documented in your control plan, you most likely need to notify/submit to your customer .

As far being proactive and telling your customer in advance on both accounts, that gets into how your relationship is with your customer. "Better safe than sorry"...yeah, usually a good rule of thumb, but at some point, suppliers need to be able to run their own business and make improvements. I think what was the intent of the clarifications in PPAP 3rd Edition.