ISO 9001 3rd Party Audit Preparation - Open Issues Aspects

[Jim Wynne]

However, on the issue of 'post delivery activities', I don't agree that you have to have any work to do. Warranty and returns are not 'post delivery activities'. They are 'non-conforming products', (see 8.3) as soon as they hit the door. Your customer didn't want them and you shouldn't have made them.......

You were somewhat correct in your comments regarding 'servicing' as that's close to the intent. Also, the 'caveat' in section 7.5.1 says 'as applicable'.....

Andy

For what it's worth, there's an ISO dispensation (scroll down) for exclusion of post-delivery activities from the scope of registration.

Note that the exclusion is not permitted under TS 16949, where exclusions are limited to requirements referenced in 7.3 (Design and Development).

 

[Coury Ferguson]

For what it's worth, there's an ISO dispensation (scroll down) for exclusion of post-delivery activities from the scope of registration.

Note that the exclusion is not permitted under TS 16949, where exclusions are limited to requirements referenced in 7.3 (Design and Development).

Corrected Jim

 

[Jim Wynne]

Corrected Jim

Thank you. Sometimes I miss my super powers.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

However, on the issue of 'post delivery activities', I don't agree that you have to have any work to do. Warranty and returns are not 'post delivery activities'. They are 'non-conforming products', (see 8.3) as soon as they hit the door. Your customer didn't want them and you shouldn't have made them....

On this one, I beg to differ. There are many cases where warranty claims and returned products are not due to defects. Perfectly good products are returned to the suppliers every day.

Post delivery activities can include many things, such as installation, commissioning, technical support, training, maintenance, calibration, repair, operation, etc... And to be excluded from scope of the QMS, there should be sound justification. Not only the desire to "forget" the fact that you do them.

 

[AndyN]

On this one, I beg to differ. There are many cases where warranty claims and returned products are not due to defects. Perfectly good products are returned to the suppliers every day..

Sydney, I was using the same logic as ISO/TS 16949 which treats these things as 'suspect' and, hence, non-conforming........

Post delivery activities can include many things, such as installation, commissioning, technical support, training, maintenance, calibration, repair, operation, etc... And to be excluded from scope of the QMS, there should be sound justification. Not only the desire to "forget" the fact that you do them.

I agree, but didn't have that inspiration when I made my post.......

Andy

 

[potdar]

For what it's worth, there's an ISO dispensation (scroll down) for exclusion of post-delivery activities from the scope of registration.

Note that the exclusion is not permitted under TS 16949, where exclusions are limited to requirements referenced in 7.3 (Design and Development).

The ISO document also makes it very clear. Handling warranty claims, being a part of the contract, is a necesary activity and canot be ignored as 'not necessary'.

Clause 8.3 Control of NCP says "When nonconforming product is detected after delivery or use has started, the organization shall..." This covers both under warranty and outside warranty returns, justified or unjustified.

And yes, again, these returns are customer property.

 

[acook81]

Just wanted to thank everyone again for their input during my time of need. We completed our audit today and we only got one NC and no OFI. I identified all the issue's I could possibly find, worked with Top Management and put together plans for improving and in some cases developing a working QMS. The auditor loved it, he was happy that we had identifed and taken action to get this system back on track. He was very impressed and so was our Plant Manager. I might have started out being a sacrificial lamb, but I came out on top
I owe it to my years of training and the information I get from here. I love this site and I recommend it to everyone I talk to in the business.
I feel much better now about my position here and I am ready to tackle this monster and make positive changes so this company does not end up in this shape again. We have already, just in the past 3 weeks, made major changes that are leading us in the right direction. It will be a long hard road, but I have faith!!! I figure if I got us through the audit with only one NC, then I can pretty much handle just about anything.. I am Thankful for that.
Thanks again!!!!!

 

[potdar]

Congratulations

So you did take up the challenge and successfully convert you Top Management. Now, start thinking about what you are going to do after the the audit.

The ball has started rollling. Let it not lose its momentum. I can already see you as a regular contributor here after some time advising friends about how to do

Best of luck. Your job has just started.

 

[Cari Spears]

Congratulations, Angie!!! Good for you!

 

[Joe Cruse]

Well done!