ISO 9001 Internal Audit Compliance Scoring System

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#32
Seriously, I think you and Helmut are misinterpreting the scoring tool. You're going too deep into some other direction and I'm like scratching my head?whhhaaaat? How'd you get there from way over here?

It's a simple tool or an aid for the user. Apparently, I don't have the issues you say may happen and I've never had those issues since starting this scoring tool.

Truce! :bigwave:
it can be used ok, just be careful that you don't fall into a checklist mindset. There is nothing inherently wrong with "scoring," other than it can lead you to checklist auditing.

For example, if the questions you audit are all spelled out on a checklist, and those are the things that get audited every time, and pretty much nothing else, then you are probably not auditing in a process approach. That would be going the wrong direction.

If however, the scoring is only part of what you audit, the checklist reminds you of certain requirements, but you go beyond it. You audit inputs and outputs, linkages, performance metrics for each process...you audit how effectively the process is performing to its objectives...then you are doing process approach.

You have to decide...the second approach is much more effective, but harder to do without some good training.

There is a white paper on my website for free, that goes into a lot more detail, ... free download (www.Jilling.com ....TOOLS...WHITE PAPER)
 
#33
it can be used ok, just be careful that you don't fall into a checklist mindset. There is nothing inherently wrong with "scoring," other than it can lead you to checklist auditing.

For example, if the questions you audit are all spelled out on a checklist, and those are the things that get audited every time, and pretty much nothing else, then you are probably not auditing in a process approach. That would be going the wrong direction.

If however, the scoring is only part of what you audit, the checklist reminds you of certain requirements, but you go beyond it. You audit inputs and outputs, linkages, performance metrics for each process...you audit how effectively the process is performing to its objectives...then you are doing process approach.

You have to decide...the second approach is much more effective, but harder to do without some good training.

There is a white paper on my website for free, that goes into a lot more detail, ... free download (www.Jilling.com ....TOOLS...WHITE PAPER)
I get ya but you are assuming a checklist is being used in conjunction with the scoring. There is no checklist in use....at least in my audits.
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#34
I get ya but you are assuming a checklist is being used in conjunction with the scoring. There is no checklist in use....at least in my audits.
I am not assuming anything...I already agreed that it could be OK... I was cautioning prospective users that there is a significant risk of slipping out of "process approach" if they use a scored checklist in an inappropriate way. Very easy to slip into a old-style checklist audit, if you are not careful.
 
#35
It's the term "scored checklist" ...there is no such thing used, implied, etc. the scoring method tool has no relation to a checklist. That's all I am trying to convey.
 

Marc

Captain Nice
Staff member
Admin
#36
<snip> there is a significant risk of slipping out of "process approach" if they use a scored checklist in an inappropriate way. <snip>
There is risk any time even if a check list isn't used.

What I see in this is a tool is shared here in this thread. It has its limitations as every tool does. It can be mis-used (heck, even a hammer can be misused, or used in an "inappropriate" way).

My:2cents: because I think too many people reject or denounce perfectly good tools based upon vague aspects such as "if used inappropriately". Even "process approach" audits will be of little or no value if "used inappropriately", but I don't see such "warnings" in process approach discussions.
 
R

refractoryman

#37
... "[FONT=&quot]many people reject or denounce perfectly good tools based upon vague aspects such as "if used inappropriately" " ...

I just want to second this. This comment rounds off the discussion very well. Choose and use your tools wisely!

:agree:
[/FONT]
 

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