QS9000 Tier 2 for 12 Years - Transitioning to ISO9001 - Where do I start?

[qcman]

We are a tier2 and have been QS9000 for at least 12 years now and are going ISO.It's our hope that we can drop a lot of the unnecessary things we have in our otherwise good system during the switch. I know this is a broad question but where does one start on a task like this? Time is a big factor since we need to rewrite the manual,do an internal audit and get certified by 10/15/06 - yes - 10/15/06

 

[AndyN]

We are a tier2 and have been QS9000 for at least 12 years now and are going ISO.It's our hope that we can drop a lot of the unnecessary things we have in our otherwise good system during the switch. I know this is a broad question but where does one start on a task like this? Time is a big factor since we need to rewrite the manual,do an internal audit and get certified by 10/15/06 - yes - 10/15/06

It' not simply a case of dropping the unnecessary things, it's more a case of what's been added or changed and having time to show they're effective. What's so special about the deadline?
Unless you had a pretty effective qms in place under QS-9000, it's not likely you will be able to make the change over. It's more complex than simply re-writing the manual and doing a bunch of audits. A significant change is Management Review - what did you do before? Did you review progress to objectives etc? How long ago was your last review? I'd have to say that it's a practical impossibility to get there from here, even with an army.

Your best hope is to contact your registrar and postpone the visit until later this year. You might get something audit-worthy in two months. Even so, you should expect a hit with a number of nc's just because it takes time to show effectiveness. Sorry to be blunt, but I'm afraid it's not going to be very likely without getting a 'bloody nose' at the audit.............

Anyone got a different idea?..........

Andy

 

[jeffrey_Chang]

Hi QCMan,
If you are already in compliance to QS9000 for 12 over years and to do a switch over to ISO9000, I don't foresee that a drastic change is needed here. For a start, I would recommend you to perform a gap analysis of your system so as to assess what are the gaps in the current system that are missing in order to comply to ISO9000. Then you will know better how much work more is needed to be in compliance. With that, you will be able to estimate the resources needed to patch up the system.
BTW, are you already familiar with ISO9000 requirements, if not, you would need training and if you have the budget, then you might want to consider a consultant.
Out of curiosity, why do you want to comply with ISO9000 instead of TS16949.
thks.
jeffrey.

 

[AndyN]

Hi QCMan,
If you are already in compliance to QS9000 for 12 over years and to do a switch over to ISO9000, I don't foresee that a drastic change is needed here.

There is a fundamental difference here - ISO9K2K is about 'processes' and not 'procedure' for each requirement. The processes have to be measured against objectives. This wasn't a requirement of QS-9000. Don't forget that TC 176 recommended organizations have 3 years to make the transition. Yes, QS had more in common with the the 2000 version, e.g conti uous improvement, but what about competencies, process measurement, management commitment etc, etc.......These are not likely to be able to be made robust enough to pass an audit in a few days.......
Oh, and you're right about getting training too....

Andy

 

[jeffrey_Chang]

Hi Andy,
Thks for the info.
However, my previous company was once upon a time in compliance to
ISO9000-1994. The company then get themselves converted to QS 9000 and was certified to it.
Later, we switched over to TS16949 and was certified.
If I'm correct, TS16949 baseline its requirement to ISO9000-2000 with the automotive industry specific requirements. Pls bear with me, I'm not an expert in this subject matter.
However, the transition from QS9000 to TS16949 in conjunction with ISO9000-2000 was surprisingly not a drastic change for us. True enough it don't take a few days to get the system in compliance, maybe weeks but the overall changes impact was not really such a big deal.
thks.
jeffrey.

 

[potdar]

Get yourself a good consultant. Today. And start working. Dont waste a minute reading my next sentence.

 

[qcman]

Cost is the time factor here since switching certs is cheaper than recert so I'm told. The powers to be have decided ISO is what we need so we have no input there. The QS system we have in place is pretty good and we have always done good as far as audits go.

 

[Martijn]

If I understand the situation correctly you're planning a move from a procedure QMS to a process oriented QMS a la ISO 9001:2000. Here's one big tip (I've been there myself a few times).

Start from scratch, define the processes, then look at the ISO 9001 requirements concerning that process, take the parts from the old procedures that are still required by the ISO 9001, fit them in, throw the rest out.

Rewriting existing material that was written in a different mind set will give you much more work, and you will most definitely regret it once you're done.

Good luck!

 

[Coury Ferguson]

There is a fundamental difference here - ISO9K2K is about 'processes' and not 'procedure' for each requirement. The processes have to be measured against objectives. This wasn't a requirement of QS-9000. Don't forget that TC 176 recommended organizations have 3 years to make the transition. Yes, QS had more in common with the the 2000 version, e.g conti uous improvement, but what about competencies, process measurement, management commitment etc, etc.......These are not likely to be able to be made robust enough to pass an audit in a few days.......
Oh, and you're right about getting training too....

Andy

Fundamentally yes. But the TS requirement was based upon ISO9001:2000, but added "customer specifics" I believe. So, would not having a system that has complied with TS meet the ISO9001:2000 requirements? It would allow the transitioning time from the TS to ISO9001:2000, and in my opinion wouldn't require a change in the timing of the audit.

 

[qcman]

I see I typed the wrong date of cert, it should read 12-15-06. Re-writing the manual does make more sense so we will most likely go that route.I have a question on control plans if someone can answer it. Currently we have at least a few thousand control plans ( one for every part number) and electronic routing with both having almost identical information. To stream line the system we are considering dropping control plans and use the e-routing which has the ability to show everything the control plans do. So my question is under ISO can we use a cutoff point where we stop using CP and use e-routing only? Once we start doing this we will start working backward through old CP converting them to e-routing as time permits.